[cairo] The problem of seams, again
mike.emmel at gmail.com
Mon Jan 2 07:51:42 PST 2006
This to me seems very similar to 3D voxels I think your close to
replicating the way a 3d engine does scene development.
If you consider they extra info to be a Z coordinate then I think the
problems are the same if not very similar. Your P(0.8,0.55) would
simply be the Z axis for a 2d voxel.
On 1/2/06, Elia Cogodi <eliacogodi at tin.it> wrote:
> Mail monster ate my Dec 30 post, so here it is again...
> Disclaimer: I don't know the insides of Cairo or X or RENDER _at all_.
> I am merely a curious, grateful reader and end-user, intrigued enough to
> go and read the Porter-Duff article referenced, I think, by keithp.
> Thus the things I say might not have much sense code-wise, given the
> current structure of the code, the needs to resort to given data formats
> for hw acceleration and so on. By reading this disclaimer you silently
> agreed to not kick me if I say something totally useless :)
> I've often seen supersampling suggested as a viable tradeoff in the
> direction of: more memory needed, less seams/border problems
> But as someone pointed out, we're just losing information about the
> geometry of covering colours at sub-pixel level each time we use AA
> to render to a final RGB. Even by adding alpha channel in intermediate
> state doesn't work well enough in some cases, as it only measures the
> average covering. By supersampling we're just reducing this problem,
> but it's intrinsic into this way of rasterizing arbitrary geometries
> to a pixel grid. But shouldn't we better invest the extra memory
> consumption in a smarter way, closer to the source of the problem?
> Basically it's mostly about polygon edges, so why can't we bring a
> little amount of quantized geometry information with every pixel,
> detailing the simplest significant entity, ie a covering semiplane?
> I suck at ASCII art, but the idea is simple: here's a pixel
> 0 .08 .25
> 1.0 +----+---------+
> | \########|
> | \#######|
> | \######| R,G,B,A, P=(.08,.55)
> | \#####|
> | \####|
> | \###|
> .75 .55 .50
> Parametrize the edge of the pixel with a float, for example clockwise,
> in the range of a semi-closed interval [0,1.0[. Define the P channel of a
> pixel with an ordered couple of numbers in this range. The idea is that
> the couple of numbers defines the intersecting segment of a coloured
> semiplan over the pixel. The ordering guarantees we know the
> for example defining it so that the covered part is on the left when
> going from P1 to P2.
> Thus, in the intermediate internal states we would add not only the A
> channel to the RGB components, but we would also have to bring along the
> P channel (its esact bitwise coding and size is not that important. It
> is more expensive memory-wise than A in describing the average covering,
> but less expensive than a detailed enough NxN supersampling)
> Then all Porter-Duff operators would have to be extended so that they
> output not only the resulting alphas, but also a 'resulting average
> geometry' P for the output pixel. So given two colors with different
> P coverages:
> +-+------+ +--------+ +--------+
> | \#####| |@@@@@@@@| |$$$$$$$$|
> | \####| OVER |--------| -> | ^$$$$$|
> | \###| | | | ^$$|
> +-----+--+ +--------+ +--------+
> (well, I don't have the ascii to draw the slope in the resulting pixel,
> but I have faith in your good will and imagination :) )
> The 'average geometry' can surely be formalized with weights based
> on the alpha components etc... I'm pretty sure a reasonable formula can
> be figured out for each operator.
> You see where I'm going: in the intermediate step this extra information
> solves some of our problems.
> 1) seams between exactly adjoining polygons simply disappear, because
> there's enough geometric information to know when a pixel is exactly
> 2) drawing B OVER A no longer has the color A 'polluting' the
> antialiased borders of B even when B completely covers A, save for
> errors introduced by quantizing the geometry.
> No mathematical proof here, but if you think about it a bit, I think it
> would give us anyway better results than the current alpha-only AA.
> Elia Cogodi <eliacogodi at tin.it>
> cairo mailing list
> cairo at cairographics.org
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